Talk:Noongar

What has already been assimilated?

It would probably be pertinent to delete from this draft the information that has already been put into the main article. Benn M. 15:48, 2005 May 4 (UTC)

Treaty

"Harry Hobbs and George Williams of the Faculty of Law at the University of New South Wales have described the Settlement as 'Australia's First Treaty'." See: http://www.noongar.org.au/s/The-Noongar-Settlement-First-Australian-Treaty.pdf for the article in which they do so.

References

Noongar names

Three Aboriginal men of Perth are identified as Monday, Doomera and Djar

References

Mark Parton

@Amborille:, re [1][2][3][4] ... As it states in his article, although Mark Parton has Noongar heritage, he "[does] not identify as Aboriginal". Consequently we ought not include him in Aboriginal/Noongar categories, lists etc. Please discuss, rather than simply re-adding him, if you disagree. Mitch Ames (talk) 23:35, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

@MitchAmes Oh I understand. I will promptly remove him from the category. Amborille (talk) 13:19, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

References

Modern vs Historical

Do we have / need guidelines for what constitutes Modern vs Historical for the purposes of listing notable Noongar people? I would not have considered Graham Farmer (1935-2019) or Jack Davis (playwright) (1917-2000) to be "historical", but Amborille apparently does: [5][6][7]. Mitch Ames (talk) 23:54, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Seems to be a weird and not well defined way to sort this. There is already a List of Noongar people which has better categories. I think the list in this article should be removed altogether, seeing as List of Noongar people should already list all notable Noongar people and any list here would necessarily have to have some sort of inclusion criteria stricter than GNG, which would be hard to define. Steelkamp (talk) 04:27, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

I think the list in this article should be removed altogether — Agreed. Delete the section Noongar § Notable Noongar people, and instead add List of Noongar people, and Category:Noongar people to Noongar § See also. Mitch Ames (talk) 05:00, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

There is a tendency by people to consider someone who passed before they were born to label people as historical. IMHO there should be no distinction and the article should only identify a limited number of people who have a legacy impact Like Polly, Jack, Yagan, Kim Scott the other people(played 3 games for Freo) can go in a list where era's interests, and other such collations can be assigned at least until WikiData becomes a more acceptable way to create lists. 09:51, 30 November 2023 (UTC) Gnangarra 09:51, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

It can be much more complex than that, as some groups have very specific rules regarding whether people are mentioned or images shown of deceased persons. It is not universal, and interestingly broadcasters such as the ABC have 'blanket' disclaimers regarding people who have died. As to the context of 'historical', 'notable' or 'legacy impact', the specific discussion regarding the subject are well beyond a wikipedia talk page. It is something that has implications for the whole Australian project as to how to identify people of any ethnic identification, not any one group. JarrahTree 01:52, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

the article should only identify a limited number of people who have a legacy impact Like Polly, Jack, Yagan, Kim Scott — Jack Davis, Yagan, Kim Scott are already mentioned in the appropriate sections (Culture, History of contact). Mitch Ames (talk) 00:49, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

I have moved 1 comment each by Gnangarra and JarrahTree from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Western Australia#Definition of "modern" vs "historical" Noongar people to here to avoid fragmenting the discussion. Mitch Ames (talk) 02:12, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Totally inappropriate - specially to do with actual page watchers and page views JarrahTree 02:44, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Please see WP:CROSS-POST, WP:DISCUSSFORK. Feel free to update those guidelines to include an instruction to check page-watchers and page-views first. Mitch Ames (talk) 03:30, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

some groups have very specific rules regarding whether people are mentioned ... — Fortunately Wikipedia has its own rules, so "some [other] groups" rules probably don't apply here.

It is something that has implications for the whole Australian project — I'm sure you'll post a link when you start that discussion. In the meantime, specific suggestions for this article would be appreciated. Mitch Ames (talk) 02:19, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Please do not inflict your problems on other editors - you have no idea about anything to do with aboriginal culture, and your question and your comments simply reflect an inability to take heed of the fact that any one group might have different vocabularies for a range of people within their specific group, whether it is living or dead, famous or notable. JarrahTree 02:43, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

I've removed the ever-growing list, and replaced it with a "See also" entry. As Gnangarra suggested (on this page and at the recent meetup), someone might care to write a few paragraphs about a few specific people who are notable for being Noongar. Mitch Ames (talk) 04:51, 5 December 2023 (UTC)